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There is no real freedom in the ‘term-limited’ mind!
Constitutional Issues by srweston21


In just about every political discussion in which you engage these days, someone brings up term limits as the answer to ridding Washington of all its troubles.  These people claim that career politicians are the problem and by enacting term limits on Congress, we, the people, will regain control of our government.  As grounds for this idea, term limit proponents frequently refer to the words of James Madison, where in The Federalist, No. 57 he wrote concerning members of the House of Representatives, “Before the sentiments impressed on their minds by the mode of their elevation can be effaced by the exercise of power, they will be compelled to anticipate the moment when their power is to cease, when their exercise of it is to be reviewed, and when they must descend to the level from which they were raised; there for ever to remain…”  These words suggest that Madison felt that members of the House of Representatives would serve but one term and then go back to whatever endeavors the members engaged in prior to their election.

 

Before a response to this argument is posited, allow a brief story to fill your mind.  This story is a hypothetical account of what might have happened to one such representative, had those seeking congressional term limits in the late 1950’s succeeded in their quest.

 

It is 1966.  California.  A 55-year-old man with an unyielding fervor for his country and a strong desire to serve the people of his state seeks election to the House of Representatives.  The people from his district are solidly behind him, though they wonder if he has sufficient experience for this position.  He is a man filled with energy, dedicated to the ideal of returning this nation to the status the founding fathers had envisioned.  On Election Day, this man receives the ultimate reward for his diligence – he is elected to represent his constituents in Congress.  Not surprisingly, he goes to Washington, D.C., and with great honor, fulfills the promises he made to those who sent him.  No one can question his commitment or his record of achievements.  He has stayed true to his word and fought for the betterment of his legislative district and the nation as a whole.  Not once, did he stray from his ethics, nor did he fall prey to special interest groups.  He is a champion of those less fortunate, a believer in small government, lower taxes, and true freedom for the people of this land.  There is no one who seeks to challenge his re-election.  Thus, two years hence, the electorate joyfully returns him to Congress for a second term.  Once more, this principled man serves his constituency according to their wishes, engendering in them, tremendous respect for him and his righteous behavior.  He has become not just the favorite son of his district, but of all California.  Two years pass and it is time once more for his constituents to decide upon the name of their elected representative; but alas, his name can no longer be placed on the ballot due to previously enacted term limits upon all members of Congress by way of a constitutional amendment these very same constituents voted for just 8 years prior.  Heartbroken, they are forced to cast their vote toward a lesser choice, one they would never have sought out, had they not been erroneously swayed to enact term limits. 

 

This man, upon whom his constituents had laid great respect, is no longer eligible to serve in the House of Representatives; the man they loved, the one for whom they wished, must now step aside and return to private life or seek a different elective office.  Being true to his love of country and our constitution, this man does not utter a single complaint; instead, he retires to his ranch to determine what his future will hold.  This man’s name is Ronald Reagan.  As previously mentioned, this story is a hypothetical look at what might have happened had Ronald Reagan run for Congress instead of the governorship of California, and had term limits been in place as many now wish.

 

The point of this story is this – that by ‘term-limiting’ our minds, the idea of congressional term limits sounds great when the voters are disgusted by the actions of their elected officials, yet it quickly becomes an anathema when we, the very same voters, seek to retain a greatly appreciated representative.  We, the people, cannot have it both ways!  We must learn that we cannot subscribe to short-term thinking when the long-term effects of that thinking have not been fully explained or explored.  We must unleash our minds and accept the responsibility placed upon us by our constitution – that we actively engage in every election, to ensure that those who deserve to represent us are retained to do just that, and those who are found not so deserving, are sent home.

 

In conclusion, let us return to the remaining words of James Madison on this subject, where, in the last portion of the previously quoted language from The Federalist, No. 57, he finished by stating, “…unless a faithful discharge of their trust shall have established their title to a renewal of it”.  Madison knew that freedom rests with the electorate, not by way of limiting our choices, but by each voter fulfilling his or her constitutional responsibilities.  Enough said!



Posted 1/13/2010

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From richiep Posted 3/31/2010 10:09:08 PM

We have been getting raped by the federal reserve since 1913, while democrates and republicans stood by, watched, and said nothing. If you are an incumbent in my voting district, I don't care if you have a D or An R next to your name I'm VOTING AGAINST YOU.


From pudgy1935 Posted 3/29/2010 3:50:05 PM

the term limit sugestion is out of frustration. I believe that congress should be mandated as a part time group(as origionally stated) and then get no pension, limited perks and mandated to recess for the summer. Only to be called back in case of an emergency.


From mikeymike143 Posted 3/29/2010 12:38:13 AM

i saw a great article talking about the need for term limits on FOX. i will post the link to it. and here is a statement from the article that i thought was really good.

"We need folks coming in from the outside who have paid taxes and created jobs and lived under the regulations that these career politicians have created," said Jim Rutledge, a Republican attorney running to unseat Maryland Democratic Sen. Barbara Mikulski, who has 33 years in Congress between the House and Senate

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/28/incumbents-beware-term-limits-resurrected-disaffected-voters/



From jdangiel1 Posted 3/28/2010 7:09:36 PM

The moral doesn't work. There is no guarantee that the next candidate is going to be worse. If so, the primary process failed, not term limits. Plus, when we factor in reality, we are forced to deal with entrenched encumbents who will turn from their principles over time and betray us, or will become entitled to their seat and behave as such. Way too many well meaning, principled people are susceptible to breaking off pieces of their souls and selling them, and, left in Washington too long, will eventually do just that. Term limits are a safe guard against that. Term limits also make it more difficult for the eletists running the party machines from foisting the worst people on us and forcing us to have to vote for them or go with the other party, a problem rife at the state level these days.


From munrboca Posted 3/28/2010 9:32:00 AM

The author needs to take a course in logic. Following his /her logic we would still be a colony of Britain.


From TomJulianPatriot Posted 3/27/2010 9:09:58 PM

11.2010 :
AMERICA IS KICKING THE DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISTS FROM OFFICE!!!

11.2012 :
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE TAKING BACK AMERICA
&
KICKING THE IDIOTIC GHETTO MORON -
BARACK OBAMA -
OUT ON HIS SOCIALISTIC, FASCIST BUTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A VOTE FOR OBAMA IS A VOTE AGAINST AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!

DOWN WITH THE FASCIST!

DOWN WITH SOCIALISM!

UP WITH LIBERTY & AMERICA!

VOTE NO TO ANOTHER TERM BY
THE ONES WHO WISH TO INVADE YOUR LIVES!

VOTE TO TELL OBAMA :

YOU DO NOT DESERVE TO BE OUR LEADER -
YOU CAN GO TO HELL!!!



From gdownunder Posted 3/27/2010 5:27:11 PM

I can only imagine the kinds of arrangements and special deals to which a person has to agree in order to acquire the financing and get the endorsement of the political party as well as the special interest groups in order to get elected to political office. The problem, I think, is that, in this process to get elected, these professional politicians become indebted to the political party and the special interest groups that provide most of the funding and other support necessary to stay in office. It is this process that, I think, has corrupted our political system because this process tends to take the focus away from those that are not directly involved with a political party or directly affiliated with a special interest group, i.e., the majority of the electorate. Thus, the problem; the majority of the electorate do not get the same amount of representation from their elected officials as the smaller special interest groups. The obvious implication from this is that we ALL need to become more involved in our political process. Nevertheless, we still have to contend with those who exert more influence than is reasonable or fair to the rest of us. Term limits might be one way of addressing the problems associated with those special interest groups that exert inordinate or undue influence on our political system. One would hope that a term-limited politician would be somewhat more independent from special interests and more responsive to their general electorate if they knew they would be in office only for a short time, thus not having the long-term expectations and demands of staying in office. One potential problem I see with this "intervention" is that, if not addressed in advance, term limits alone do not prevent long-term political/occupational relationships. That is, once term-limited, a politician who is not elected to another different office can go work for a special interest group or a government contractor as a lobbyist, taking advantage of those political connections established while in office. Thus, the cycle of undue political influence could potentially be enhanced and not restricted as intended. Another potential down-side to term-limits is that this process would "punish" the good with the bad. After all, not all long-serving politicians are under the undue influence of special interest groups. At least I would like to think so! (Yes, I know, this leads to yet another philosophical question as to whether or not politics is inherently corrupting.) Bottom line, I agree with uncleclaus below that we need to strongly remind our elected officials that they work for us who elected them and pay their salary. Personally, I am of the opinion that professional politicians and the special interests they represent have corrupted and adulterated our political system. However, I am just not entirely certain that term-limits is the only solution.


From uncleclaus Posted 3/23/2010 2:39:14 PM

People who are not term limited wil do just what this congress did. They think that they are a privledged class and are able to do what they want instead of what the people who put them there. A freshman congressman from Ohio is so not worried about his job that he voted for the health bill because he thinks his job is safe. It's time to show these people who is the employer and who is the employee. Congress voted for this health bill inspite of what the people wanted. If they were really on term limits then maybe they would listen to the people more and less to the party leaders. No longer could they hold chairmansships over there heads to coerce them into voting against what the people want. It is about time more stares vote in term limits


From gdownunder Posted 3/17/2010 1:34:05 AM

As I see it, the problem is that the fox is guarding the hen house. These professional politicians are making all of the rules and laws regarding our political system and electoral process. As I recall, back during the late 80's/early 90's, the state of Washington enacted a term-limit law. One of the Washington state congressional Representatives, Tom Foley, opposed that law and eventually filed suit through to the Supreme Court challenging the constitutionality of this law, resulting in the repeal of this law. So, despite enacting a popularly supported piece of legislation, we have politicians who subvert this popular will to their own ends. How can we defend ourselves in this kind of system? It seems to me that these professional politicians have adulterated our political system!


From Scott Given Posted 3/16/2010 10:30:57 AM

The argument for term limits is more than your example of Ronald Reagan. No one expects term limits to include all government, just the time one can stay in the house or senate. The President already has term limits and this is to avoid making someone so powerful that they are like a king. This is what the founders had in mind. In your argument Reagan would stop at congress, you left out Senate or as Reagan knew in his heart the only way for him to truly cause change was as president, and as far as I see it worked out right. So yes I vote for term limits for congress, senate, as well as president.
Too many people in congress are there and way to powerful. Fresh ideals, fresh views, and a limit to excessive power is what Jefferson wanted but was unable to achieve because of his ambassadorship to France. Jefferson wrote of term limits and he was right.



From richiep Posted 3/16/2010 7:33:20 AM

GER2BON........I second that motion !!!!


From GER2BON Posted 3/15/2010 6:07:22 PM

SERVING IN CONGRESS IS AN HONOR,NOT A CAREER. THE FOUNDING FATHERS ENVISIONED CITIZEN LEGISLATORS, SERVE YOUR TERM(S) ,THEN GO HOME AND BACK TO WORK.
COULD THIS BE THE CONGRESSION REFORM ACT OF 2010 ?
TERM LIMITS: 12 YEARS MAX.
NO TENURE AND NO PENSION.
CONGRESS PARTICIPATES IN SOCIAL SECURITY.
CONGRESS CAN PURCHASE THEIR OWN RETIREMENT PLAN JUST AS ALL AMERICANS.
CONGRESS WILL NO LONGER VOTE THEMSELVES A PAY RAISE.
CONGRESS LOOSES THEIR CURRENT HEALTH PLAN AND PARTICIPATES IN THE SAME SYSTEM AS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
ALL CONTRACTS WITH PAST AND PRESENT CONGRESSMEN ARE VOID AS OF 1-1-11.






From GER2BON Posted 3/15/2010 5:56:05 PM




From mhshield1 Posted 3/13/2010 6:05:01 PM

Term limits would never be an issue if elected officials did what they were supposed to do... Take care of their area, not themselves. I think that congress spends to much time taking care of the "squeeky wheel" and that is going to come back and bite us all. What are all these programs that we are paying for really meant to do? Take care of the people right? Well if you stop giving someone everything they need in life they will actually get it for themselves. The survival instinct, every person alive has it. Spread my work ethic, not my wealth. I grew up on welfare and had nothing as a child, but I vowed never to let anyone take care of me as long as I could do it myself... guess what? I can do it myself. It takes a little bit of HARD work, but there is no reason it can't be done. I think that if my dad, who was raising us by himself, was cut off he could of made it too. Imagine that- personnal accountability for everyone. Including Congress. I don't need you to help me spend what I earn. I earn every penny I make. My ass is on the line everyday trying to help my community. I'm held accountable. Why not elected officials? People can live good lives without direction from government. Especially a government that doesn't have to live in the real world. Term limits- good idea. Lifetime salaries after leaving congress- bad idea. Free health care after leaving congress- bad idea. Get a job. Take the lifetime salary and put it into social security. Take the health care away too. Make them get what we have to get. I'll bet the people would have one hell of a health plan, I mean since they are forcing it down our throats and all. Use that money for social securtity or something. Well whatever, I spoke my peace.


From richiep Posted 3/13/2010 4:45:38 PM

The sad truth is, this health care bill isnt about health care at all.
It's about more GOVERNMENT CONTROL. If our government really cared about the poor it would lower taxes across the board in business and on us the tax payer. This would do two things, it would help create jobs, and it would put more money in our pockets to buy things, which would create more jobs and so on and so on. Then people would be able to afford health care because they would be working and they would have more money in their pockets. So, in reality what we really don't need is health care reform, what we really do need, is GOVERNMENT out of lives. And that includes both parties.



From gdownunder Posted 3/13/2010 3:24:24 PM

To follow up on MR6's comment below regarding healthcare reform, the really sad issue is that this proposal is approximately 3000 pages long and no one knows or fully understands all of its conditions or policies or stipulations!! How can anyone make an informed decision about such a proposal?? Can anyone fully explain what moving to a more "social healthcare program" actually means in terms of services covered and provided and how this is going to affect costs?


From mr6 Posted 3/13/2010 6:52:54 AM

I'm a brand new "member". And the first thing I see is the above article. I'm almost sorry I signed on. I too am very surprised, and disappointed with this article's advocacy against term limits. What is it the is not understood? CONGRESS IS BROKEN! Both parties, and both houses. I frankly see no other soluction than a "meat axe" approach. These people think of ONE THING: "What do I need to do today, tomorrow, and every other day, TO KEEP MY JOB." Then the money starts to flow (Big corporate money; no, I'm sorry, I DON'T think that corporations/business is the answer to everything! And we must not be naive: the TP movement is NOT going to fix it! Trying to get people to vote for "our candidates" is, in my opinion, only going to get us a fresh set of faces, with the same old agenda.
Finally, remember this: the framers of the constitution NEVER, not EVER, even considered that Congress, or the state legislatures, would become FULL TIME JOBS! Never. The worst thing that's happened to us as a nation, in my opinion, is when Congress decided it needed to be full time. From that day on, again in my opinion, our system of government became ever more "broken".
Throw the bums out! And enact term limits so that they can't make it their "job". Thereby requiring them to do what the original framers of the contitution envisioned: they go to Washington for a few months, then come home and (here's a concept): GET A REAL JOB, like the rest of the country. No, I'm sorry, I don't for a second believe we need full time legislatures for our government to work.
In recent times, the best chance this country had was when Clinton and Gingrich shut the governement down, and they couldn't do anything.
One more thing, and I know this is contrary to everything this movement is about: We desperately need health care reform! Our current system is going to break this country. I DO AGREE, that the current bill is crap!



From gdownunder Posted 3/12/2010 9:35:21 PM

Another way of rephrasing this question is to ask, how do people like Ted Kennedy, Barney Frank, and Charlie Rangel, as well as Strom Thurman and Robert Byrd and Arlen Spector continue to get re-elected, depite appearing to leave the popular mainstream with respect to the political positions? Granted, there is something to be said for being popular amongst the electorate. However, I cannot help but wonder about the "political machinery" supporting these politicians. Given our current two-party system, I cannot help but wonder if we the (tax-paying) electorate actually have any real choices in identifying and electing our representatives. Case in point is the recent senatorial election in Massachusetts, with the election of Coakley all but a done deal up until the last week of the election. How was Coakley even selected/nominated? Was she really the best candidate the Democrats could come up with? A similar issue arose in the congressional election in up-state NY where an unpopular candidate was supported by the Republican party, resulting in the Democratic candidate taking the congressional seat. It would seem that, even if we the tax-paying electorate faithfully comply with our responsibility to vote, we still have the issue of how nominees are selected and how these nominees are funded in the election process. When a lot of these issues are beyond the influence of us regular "John Q Publics," maybe term-limits are the best way of counter-balancing these influence issues?


From richiep Posted 3/11/2010 9:06:18 PM

Paythe price asked, "whens the last time you heard an atheist commit murder?
LENNIN
STALIN
and the biggest MASS MURDERER OF THEM ALL CHAIRMAN MAO thats just off the top of my head. Paytheprice, be thankfull this country was founded by GOD fearing men, because if it wasn't you wouldnt be able to voice your opinion as openly as you do.



From Nord357 Posted 3/11/2010 1:54:14 PM

Gentlefolk,
I am surprised at the arguments for term limits.
I am surprised that my American brothers actually believe we need legislation to protect us from our own laziness.

People if we are not diligent enough to police our own votes. If we are not willing to be tireless in educating our children and neighbors.
If we are absolutely committed to putting together some autopilot system so that we can sit on our couch and trust that "the bums are thrown out" . I submit that we do not deserve the liberty our fathers purchased with thier blood and sacrifice.

I further submit that if we do in fact insist on these things, that aforementioned liberty will not long be an issue for discussion



From Nord357 Posted 3/11/2010 7:47:59 AM

Gentlefolk,
I am surprised at the arguments for term limits.
I am surprised that my American brothers actually believe we need legislation to protect us from our own laziness.

People if we are not diligent enough to police our own votes. If we are not willing to be tireless in educating our children and neighbors.
If we are absolutely committed to putting together some autopilot system so that we can sit on our couch and trust that "the bums are thrown out" . I submit that we do not deserve the liberty our fathers purchased with thier blood and sacrifice.

I further submit that if we do in fact insist on these things, that aforementioned liberty will not long be an issue for discussion



From Nord357 Posted 3/11/2010 7:43:02 AM

Gentlefolk,
I am surprised at the arguments for term limits.
I am surprised that my American brothers actually believe we need legislation to protect us from our own laziness.

People if we are not diligent enough to police our own votes. If we are not willing to be tireless in educating our children and neighbors.
If we are absolutely committed to putting together some autopilot system so that we can sit on our couch and trust that "the bums are thrown out" . I submit that we do not deserve the liberty our fathers purchased with thier blood and sacrifice.

I further submit that if we do in fact insist on these things, that aforementioned liberty will not long be an issue for discussion



From Paytheprice Posted 3/7/2010 1:28:14 PM

Susan Browne's comments of 2/28 say it for me!
"Repeal the 17th amendment", might be a good battle cry for us, and a GREAT change for our country.
Can you think of anything negative about it?
Term limits are tempting, but it doesn't show much respect for the voters intelligence.

A plea to some of you commenters:
Can we keep religion, abortion and gay rights out of our agenda?
This is where the Republicans have gone off the track.
None of this is our governments' business and only distracts from the real issues-
Fiscal responsibility has to be #1 or everything else won't matter much. (Our whole way of life will be gone).

Religion-many of our Founding Fathers were deists-Way different than most of the Christian religions of today.
Basically-God created all and then left it alone-Not involved with our little lives and governments, etc,--Actually explains lots of things, doesn't it?

Abortion-It's not our body or our child, so none of OUR business.

Gay rights- Don't you know some gay people? The ones I know are nice upstanding members of their communities, and generally fun to be around, too. What gives us the right to have anything to do with the way they live?

I believe in FREEDOM, not restrictions, and I believe most other Tea Partiers do too--
Founding Fathers said the same -Their attitude was that any govt. is a "necessary evil" and should be kept down to a bare minimum.

Bumper Sticker--"Where are we going and what are we doing in this handbasket."

By the way I am a happily semi-retired contractor with an amazing wife ,(of 30 years), 2 Terrific and very mature daughters with really nice guys for husbands ,and 5 great grandkids.
Hobbies are bay fishing and helping younger entrepreneurs/businessmen that I think are worth my time, (honest guys with terrific integrity), build their own buildings and grow their businesses. Rewarding stuff!

And I'm an atheist.
You knew I sounded too good, right? ha- Morals and ethics have nothing to do with religion, contrary to popular belief. When's the last time you heard of an atheist committing murder, for instance? And with no God or hell to worry about wouldn't you think they'd just all kill anybody that made 'em mad, etc?
I know several atheist guys and every one of them are excellent family men with lots of integrity.
Only atheists really know how precious life really is, as there is no hereafter.
Cher-(when being interviewd bu Barbara Walters, who asked her if she wasn't sometimes embarrassed by the really skimpy outfits she wears on stage)-"Hey honey, this ain't no dress rehearsal, this is the only life we get!"



From bruscke Posted 3/7/2010 12:43:37 PM

Agreed. The Founding Fathers anticipated different scenarios for the House and Senate. They felt that the responsibilities assigned to the Senate warranted retention of experience; and so, the term was set at 6 years vs. 2; and, re-election/appointment was viewed favorably. As our world grows more complex the argument for experience in statesmanship grows more compelling. Term limits on the legislators aren't going to solve our problems so long as the electorate prefer thieves to statesmen.
The term limit on the President is now the constitutional law-of-the-land. After FDR, it seems prudent not to invest anyone with so much power for a lifetime. Moreover, 8 years in office ages the incumbent terribly.
Mark



From Paytheprice Posted 3/7/2010 12:22:08 PM




From Paytheprice Posted 3/7/2010 12:21:55 PM




From mizak7 Posted 3/5/2010 7:48:56 PM

I agree with this wholeheartedly! Term limits is a form of voter disenfranchisement. I was against it in California, and I'm against it in the federal government -- except for the President.


From Wright73 Posted 3/5/2010 4:20:14 AM

I don't think so... If this hypothetical was that good, he will move (be moved) up (into Senate, appointment to higher office, etc.) maybe become president some day by means of a different avenue.


From PaulJones Posted 3/3/2010 10:06:25 PM

George Washington refused a 3rd term. Was their any good presidents after him?
The point is congress would stop running for reelection all the time & actually vote for the good of the country not the party if there were teerm limits.
WAKE UPAMERICA
No mater what party Democrat, Republican or Independent this is for you.

Americans of all political parties are disillusioned with the way the U.S government is run.

It will never get any better until some fundamental changes are made.

Congress and the house have the real power not the president.
Congress & the House pass the bills and make the laws.

You don’t really believe that 100% of the Republicans are against a bill and 100% of the Democrats are for the bill or visa versa. They are voting along party lines not for the good of America.

These changes need to be made:
1) Congress and the House of Representatives should be limited to 2 terms. (Term Limits)

The president IS limited to 2 terms in office so should the congress be limited.

From the day they are elected to congress their main goal is to get reelected. So they vote with the party not for what benefits America.
Proof is seen when recently 11 senators resigned saying congress is no longer has the good of the people and they are discussed.

2) Every bill should be passed independently. A bill is not allowed to be piggybacked or be an “amendment” to another bill.
For example: There may be a bill to give servicemen a 3% raise. Senator number 1 attaches a bill for 100 million dollars to build a bridge to nowhere in his state so he can get reelected. Senator number 2 votes against the bill because he is against the bridge to nowhere. At election time they bring up the fact that Senator number 2 voted against the bill to give servicemen a raise. Now he can’t defend himself because he did vote against the bill. This happens all the time in Washington. If each bill stood alone the true vote would be accountable.
Some may say this would take time and less bills passed. Perhaps, but we would all be better off if congress didn’t pass any bills.

These 2 changes would go a long way to getting America back in hands of the people as the constitution intended.

I also believe each congressman and house representative should be given a 2 bedroom condo in Washington DC while they are in office. Thus relieving them of the house-hunting burden when they first take office or being beholding to anyone.

Do you know there are 3 lobbyists for every congressman in Washington? That plus the fact that every congressman’s goal is to get reelected corrupts even the most well intended congressman.

Lets wake up America and see if we can get these few changes enacted.

PLEASE SEND THIS TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW. Let’s see if there is still can be a grass root movement in America.

Limit congress to 2 terms & all bills must be passed separately.

WAKE UPAMERICA



From FROMMYCOLDDEADHANDSNEGRO Posted 3/2/2010 1:49:24 AM

THIS ARTICLE LOOKS LIKE JUST THE SORT OF PATRIOTIC CELEBRATION (THAT MAKES YOU REALLY THINK TOO!!) THAT THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA CHOOSES TO IGNORE BECAUSE THE LIBERAL SPECIAL INTERESTS THAT FUND THEM TELL THEM NOT TO TOUCH. WHEN I IMAGINE WHAT MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED IF REAGAN HAD RUN FOR CONGRESS WITH REAL BAD TERM-LIMITS IN PLACE, I TELL YOU, I GET CHILLS OF FEAR JUST RUNNING DOWN MY BACK AND MY ARMS. IF HE HAD NEVER BEEN PRESIDENT, JUST IMAGINE WHERE WE'D BE TODAY! THE HOLE WE'RE IN WOULD'VE BEEN TWICE AS DEEP, MAYBE LIKE FOUR TIMES AS DEEP.


From quigley1976 Posted 3/1/2010 9:27:40 PM

Since we all know that it is money that gets someone into office these days, ending term limits wil only allow special interests to keep their man in office for good. Yes, it goes two ways. Those who want a change of power only want limits when they are in minority. If this current situation were the other way,I'm sure it would be a socialists clammering for an end to term limits. Take the money out of the equation and get people who actually care for this land to serve.
We can make this a partisan issue and give examples all day long for either side, but power limitation should always include term limits. We have had power abuses on both sides of the isle. Nobodies hands are clean. I'm glad that there is always a chance to change direction and have an election. On the other side of that, every cause worth fighting for has more than one advocate, there is never just one man to do the job. We do use a party system after all.



From SusanBrowne Posted 2/28/2010 9:30:41 AM

May I propose a different alternative. In my opinion, it is not the representatives we have elected; nor party pressure; nor even special interests. I think we messed with the Constitution and we are paying the price for it.

And if you don't mind before we get into ways to correct malfunctions in the system, I think we need to understand how it was derived in the beginning.

In it, Article 1, Sect. 8 of the Constitution the Founding Fathers spelled the powers of the Federal Government. In the 10th Amendment they said that "The powers not delegated to the Federal Government by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, or to the people."

This was part of the system of checks and balances established by the Founding Fathers' to prevent any branch of government from exceeding the bounds of its' authority.

The Founding Fathers also wanted a check in Congress against the restless winds of popular causes destablizing government and ending, as had, every other Republic before ours. So they set up two Houses: one the House of Representatives to be voted by direct election and; the second body, the Senate to be elected by the State Legislators - and represent the interest of the States and the people as property holders and residents of the states.

For years lobbyists and Special Interests wanted to gain more access in Washington but found themselves constantly blocked by the Senators. So they initiated a campaign to get election of the Senators by popular vote this was passed with the 17th Amendment in 1913 along with the 16th Amendment which allowed for the Income Tax and the Era of burgeoning Federal Government began.

Instead of the People gaining power, as the proponents of the 17th Amendment promised, they lost it. Not by legal means, but by the realities of politics. In order to get re-elected, the dominate infuences on a Senator became Party quid pro quo and special interests.

The huge multi-million constituencies became nameless faces in a crowd, to be targets of a mass marketing campaign every six years with photo-ops and sound bites.

As We the People were seperated further and further from the base of power, and the Supreme Court expanded the three elastic clauses of: General Welfare; Commerce; and Reasonable and Proper; of the Constitution in favor of the Federal Government - we have what you see today. A Federal Government engorged with power and with the States neutered of any power we have no means to stop it.

My suggestion we find by what ever ways and means to reinstate the power and authority of the States. At every turn say, "YES" to our States. Support our States. Invest time, energy and effort into our States, and at the same time say, "NO! NO! to anything the Federal Government wants to do! Until there is some restoration of balance again. Let the People solve the problems, if they can not and if absolutely necessary, then get the states involved. But only if the problem has national ramifications and it cannot be avoided - like National Defense, and Highways and Waterways get the Federal Government involved!

The Founding Fathers believed in us!!! When they wanted to divide the responsibilities between the States and the Federal Government they spelled it out in ONE SENTENCE!! They left it up to us to figure out the rest! We are just as capable today as we were then. We do not need a 2500 page bill to tell us we must help our neighbors when they are sick.

Our republic has been a unique combination of the best of two worlds: small local governments for maximum flexibility and one harmoneous union for maximum security. It is sobering to recall that we are the only Republic in history that has ever survived. It is frightening to know that no large government has ever succeeded and maintained a truly free society.




From deanc Posted 2/26/2010 1:38:44 PM

This example is not a convincing argument. Better examples FOR term limits would be Thurmond, McCain, Conyers, Dingell,etc......


From tyleram Posted 2/26/2010 2:51:46 AM

This is a link to an article about reforming Congress through a two-thirds state convention amendment to the Constitution. Makes more sense than simply voting out the "bad guys".

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20100222/lessig



From yb Posted 2/25/2010 11:55:56 AM

How did an article this superficial and ill conceived make the front page of the TPP?


From independentthinker Posted 2/24/2010 9:51:44 PM

Unfortunately, ‘ebrown60’ has been mesmerized by the anointed one and has no voice of his own. Maybe he will come out of his trace soon and engage in worthwhile dialogue…………….


From ebrown60 Posted 2/24/2010 4:45:03 PM

Obama is great
Obama is good
You are all a bunch of faggots
From da hood



From independentthinker Posted 2/21/2010 12:29:16 PM

Okay, don’t laugh….new to computers and need some help. How is it you post an article on this website?? The ones that are on the site are somewhat old and I thought I would engage but not quite sure how. Anyone with any info……….please respond. Thanks


From richiep Posted 2/21/2010 11:56:38 AM

I agree we must except responsibility, however, our framers didnt intend for citizens to become career politicians. They intended them to serve and then return to the citizenry. Furthermore, the Kennedys are extremely powerful and very influential, not to mention the money that supports them. You couldnt run against them because you havent got enough money to sustain your message even though your message may be a more sound and profitable one for the american people on a whole. It will be business as usual if we continue to elect indivuals whos concern is to make politics a career. Maybe if they had to live by the laws they impose on us they would be more conscious about the pork they add


From lorrainevb Posted 2/21/2010 12:03:31 AM

Excellent blog!

I am totally opposed to term limits for the reason stated in the blog:
"We must ... accept the responsibility placed upon us by our constitution – that we actively engage in every election, to ensure that those who deserve to represent us are retained to do just that, and those who are found not so deserving, are sent home."

Where were we, residents of Massachusetts, when Ted Kennedy was running for re-election every six years? What were we doing, citizens of Nevada, when Harry Reid was running for re-election? To what were we paying attention, voters of Michigan, when Carl Levin was running for re-election?

It's not the system's fault that these Senators were re-elected and re-elected and re-elected. It was us! We'd spend an hour complaining about the government, but not spend 15 minutes researching the other candidate and then helping him/her.

What? There weren't any other "good" candidates? Why not? I'm amazed at the LARGE number of Tea Party Patriots who have stated: I've never been involved in anything political before. Again, I ask, Why not?

It's not the system's responsibility to term-limit our Congress with more unconstitutional laws, it's our responsibility to term-limit them with our constitutional right -- and duty -- in our voting booths.

Let's get off our couches and find a candidate who represents our principles! Let's become active in getting him/her elected! Let's use our time, energy, money and votes to term-limit the men and women who have been destroying our nation with their Congressional votes! Let's use the voting booth for what it was intended: To elect those who deserve to represent us!



From PaulRevere1977 Posted 2/20/2010 11:54:29 PM

I think there should be term limits. Then the Reids and Pelosies wouldn't be quick to pass laws that they would have to live by too when they got kicked out of office.


From bajanet Posted 2/19/2010 4:01:26 PM

Dead wrong! This must have been written by a member of one of the two dominate political parties (Democrats & Republicans) who are now fearful that their near destruction of this county is about to come to an end. With term limits there can be no power elite and without that neither party can continue to loot the national treasury & relinquish the sovereignty of the America for profit. The Tea Party Patriots should never set up as a traditional political party. That would be to diminish their ideals. Don't allow it to be taken over as a for-profit business. Keep it as a movement of the people. Don't endorse anyone because of party affiliation. Elect no incumbents who do not meet the below listed endorsement standards. Support only on deeds, not promises. Anyone seeking endorsement should be judged on there proven commitment to: Personal Responsibility, Limited government, National sovereignty, Rule of law and Fiscal Responsibility. The Tea Party has a unique opportunity to recapture this nation from the greedy members of both political parties who sold us out.


From Fuzzmont Posted 2/18/2010 2:41:22 PM

I have another name for you... Ted Kennedy. It took his death to retake that senate seat that the Kennedy family felt belonged to them. Term limits still make sense.


From Fuzzmont Posted 2/18/2010 2:41:00 PM

I have another name for you... Ted Kennedy. It took his death to retake that senate seat that the Kennedy family felt belonged to them. Term limits still make sense.


From Fuzzmont Posted 2/18/2010 2:32:55 PM

I have another name for you... Ted Kennedy. It took his death to retake that senate seat that the Kennedy family felt belonged to them. Term limits still make sense.


From TheNewRepublic Posted 2/18/2010 1:23:48 PM

Sorry I refreshed and my statement re-posted each time but you only need one of my statements to realize the truth.


From TheNewRepublic Posted 2/18/2010 1:19:07 PM

And as far as this blog goes... lets do whats said above for the president and see how that work's. It doesn't! Hitler, Kim Jong Il, Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse-Tung... it leads to a dictatorship.. it can happen in America... and it might. We still have enough power to at least stop this!


From TheNewRepublic Posted 2/18/2010 1:18:26 PM

And as far as this blog goes... lets do whats said above for the president and see how that work's. It doesn't! Hitler, Kim Jong Il, Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse-Tung... it leads to a dictatorship.. it can happen in America... and it might. We still have enough power to at least stop this!


From TheNewRepublic Posted 2/18/2010 1:10:02 PM

And as far as this blog goes... lets do whats said above for the president and see how that work's. It doesn't! Hitler, Kim Jong Il, Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse-Tung... it leads to a dictatorship.. it can happen in America... and it might. We still have enough power to at least stop this!


From TheNewRepublic Posted 2/18/2010 1:05:53 PM

The problem with our country is we have lost a belief system. We as Americans have a great freedom and yet we lack belief in one thing that can take us in a morally right path. So what does morals mean? Webster's online dictionary says morals mean "a passage pointing out usually in conclusion the lesson to be drawn from a story". So we need lessons. We are simply learning one now and haven't been taught any while most of us were young. We are now faced with tasks and responsibilities meant for adults that are now given to "adults". Why the quote? Most "adults" can't handle doing things they don't like for a greater good. These "adults" are selfishly invested in there own lives and find it hard to get things done. How to fix this problem? Don't! Let it happen. Its going to happen regardless and this country will be in better shape after these "adults" learn real responsibility from failed attempts to make there future easier rather then making there lives worth living. No religion is not necessary... just faith and hard work... H A R D .. W O R K! The problem is not a "them" problem... but a "you and me" one!


From resumecoach Posted 2/18/2010 9:01:49 AM

uh,

you people need to wake up--a big contributor on this site of your's--"SweetPea"--is all for Sarah-no brain-Palin. Sweet Pea also claims Ron Paul was not the founder of the orinial movement. In fact, he was, back in 2007--dumped tea into the harbor. Paul's movement was hijacked. It's the unedcuated, ill-informed comments of sweet pea, as well as Diane Capps at a recent tea party rally in WA--where she advocates Sen. Murray being hanged--is what will hurt this movement--when you start advocating violence after you rile the nation up with bird brains like Beck and Fox--then violence is the next stage--what Capp said--that is Nazi Germany before the war. Also makes teabeaggers look hypocritical--preaching family values, but advocating violence. Tebaggers are looking more and more like right-wing, neoconservative religious zealots who are racist. Don't think so--look at this other fine peice of work from Diane Capps:

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:_hpGNWe5p_8J:teapartypatriots.ning.com/profile/diannecapps+Dianne+Capps&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

which is:

At 10:19pm on October 3, 2009, dianne capps said… I moved to Nacogdoches Tx from Clarkston Wa, and growing up here I knew very few blacks, but those I knew were educated and not racist to whites. I worked in the High school at Nacogoches I was very nieve to Southern Black Tradition. We are not recieved the same by all black people, as they are taught from birth that we think less of them. I was actually threatened one day in the school because I asked some Black Teen- agers to quiet down while a performance was going on by a white singer. It is not white people that carrry the banner. It is a certian group of Blacks who want to keep Black and whites in this culter banter. I have been on both sides and have some very wonderful black friends. It is those who want to find a place in Black Hate gangs that find the most unhappy lives.
WE have seen some of that coming out of Black Preachers, have we not, in Rev Wright?
DeeDee

Proof is in the pudding--and she can have federal charges brought aginst her for threatening a federal official--maximum penalty 6-10 plus fine. Your Welcome.



From liberty93 Posted 2/18/2010 8:55:39 AM

I have to strongly disagree with this. It does not matter how well a representative has functioned - they should not be allowed to make a career of it. In, do their time, and out. Part of the problem now is "well we should throw all of them out. Except my rep, he's great".


From tolliem Posted 2/18/2010 8:55:13 AM

surrycountylibertarian, you dont sound too libertarian, when you talk about the rules and such that you want in order for someone to serve. As for me, I think this country needs some fired up college students and other young people. Fired up because my generation and those older are so selfish that they are going to make the younger ones pay for our stupid desires. God Bless. (I am a surry co person myself)


From surrycountylibertarian Posted 2/17/2010 7:41:45 PM

I think most folks feel the point of term limits is to prevent the folks in office from gathering too much power and influence and I mostly agree. However, would also add the lack of private sector experience is also a huge problem.

I believe we should enact minimum age requirements and eliminate the lifelong benefits associated with congressional office. Let’s guarantee the folks running for office have been successful in the private sector first. For example, make 45 the minimum age to be elected to the House. Two terms as a representative REQUIRED prior to election as a Senator at minimum age of 51. No campaigning for that office while serving as representative! In other words, they must have left the House prior to running for a Senate seat. This ensures the Senators have some kind of voting record that can be scrutinized before they become one of the 100 most powerful people in the country.

Presidential candidates must be at least 60 and they must have documented private sector experience of 25 years prior to completing at least one term as Governor of their home state. This will allow us to select from a pool of candidates with private and state executive experience and a minimum of exposure to the government bureaucracy. I am appalled at the fact we have elected a one term Senator (who spent most of that time campaigning for higher office) with no executive experience to lead our country. I never again want to see a Representative, Senator or President that has not worked a significant part of their life as a regular citizen in the private sector.

Limiting terms altogether presents the serious problem of leadership in the Congress....with the notable exception of folks like Strom Thurmund, who was 54 when he took office and still held the seat for 46 years, I believe this is the best answer to Representatives and Senators with 30+ yrs in office. If we still end up with guys like Thurmond..at some point the voters have to claim some responsibility to vote them out!



From mcdonald1958 Posted 2/17/2010 7:26:24 PM

People will vote for candidates that equal or improve on the standards of the previous office holder. Term limits are required forever. If a person wants they can switch to run for senate or governor or simply help in some other productive way. The argument above is what got us into the present mess. The elected representatives vote on issues based on satisfying contributors to their reelection campaign. They are all whores for money. They seem to understand that the people are not important. This november may be the last chance to rectify the problem. The elite can rig elections anyway they want. It is naive to think that we get our choices in the election. The elite pay off and have control of so many influential groups that are able to compromise the vote it is unbelievable.The person that wrote the above essay appears to have some affinity for the status quo which will ultimately destroy this country. I hope everybody continues to believe in their own common sense and do not waiver when the attacks from the Rothschild machine are unleashed in the media and elsewhere. They will definitely infiltrate the TPP movement. They will definitely insert somebody and then have the media reveal some horrific story about the person in order to cast doubt about the TPP movement. Make sure you know your enemies.


From will_maddox Posted 2/17/2010 6:46:45 PM

Serving the people must be an act of love for our constitution much like we love our children. And we should strive to make that temporary service an opportunity to leave those in our charge strong and able to carry the torch after we're gone. 8-12 years is plenty of time for one person to defend and protect the constitution. And if they do their job right there will be thousands willing to pick up the torch for us to choose from.


From mcdonald1958 Posted 2/17/2010 5:57:09 PM

People will vote for candidates that equal or improve on the standards of the previous office holder. Term limits are required forever. If a person wants they can switch to run for senate or governor or simply help in some other productive way. The argument above is what got us into the present mess. The elected representatives vote on issues based on satisfying contributors to their reelection campaign. They are all whores for money. They seem to understand that the people are not important. This november may be the last chance to rectify the problem. The elite can rig elections anyway they want. It is naive to think that we get our choices in the election. The elite pay off and have control of so many influential groups that are able to compromise the vote it is unbelievable.The person that wrote the above essay appears to have some affinity for the status quo which will ultimately destroy this country. I hope everybody continues to believe in their own common sense and do not waiver when the attacks from the Rothschild machine are unleashed in the media and elsewhere. They will definitely infiltrate the TPP movement. They will definitely insert somebody and then have the media reveal some horrific story about the person in order to cast doubt about the TPP movement. Make sure you know your enemies.


From m.holland22@hotmail.com Posted 2/17/2010 9:51:04 AM

Nice fable. Now lets consider REALITY. In fact lets consider the Senate seat held by Ted Kennedy. When the people of Massachusetts could no longer vote for the Kennedy name, they were forced to look at the issues and lo and behold, they voted for someone who is the ideological antithesis of Ted Kennedy. For every perfect incumbent you can find, I'll bet you can find 100 incumbents who are "poisoned" by the system and the power of their elected position. I know you can't prove this but think about the members of Congress and the Senate and then make a list with two categories: "perfect politician" and "arrogant/out-of-touch politician". Which category has more entries? Yeah, thats what I thought. Term limits are essential to the future of this country.


From brewrb Posted 2/16/2010 4:22:55 PM

Long term thinking is exactly the reason to consider term limits. It is the reason the office of president has a term limit on it. While genuine public servants do exist, the reality is that power has the potential to corrupt. Always has and always will. No one is immune from the influence of self interest for their careers.

The dangers to corruption, loss of individual freedoms, and comprimised public service that result from our current system are much greater than the loss of service of a good public servant. Term limits would encourage many more good people to enter into the realm of politics, who curretly do not wish to put up the with current culture of corruption, special interests, and huge campaign expense required to get a foot into the system.

Years ago George Washington was sought after to become king. Although, he was considered a great individual, it was precisely long term thinking that led to the conclusion that he did not want to endorse or accept a position that could lead to great abuse (a king). We would rather give up a great leader after a short period of service, rather than be subject "for ever" to bad ones. It is easy to say we can always vote bad ones out, yet history is more telling that the system still favors those who make a priority of their public service time in getting re-elected.



From antipower Posted 2/16/2010 9:34:16 AM

All politicians should expect that they will be returning to the private sector at the end of their current term and thus have to live with all
that they and their predecessors have put upon us. The exceptional politicians can run for another office. No politician,however should be allowed to run for one office while holding another.



From DarinA Posted 2/16/2010 9:14:03 AM

I was for term limits, and after reading this informative discussion, I am still for term limits. It will improve connection between Congress and the people. The disconnection now is too great.


From richiep Posted 2/15/2010 7:05:38 PM

Well put foster


From fosterj717 Posted 2/15/2010 6:50:11 PM

To a certain extent, I agree with the observations stated above. The problem with our elected officials (at least for a good many of them) is that they have chosen public service as a profession rather then a calling. Having these professionals in Washington was not the intent of the framers consequently we have representatives that do not necessarily have our best interests at heart. A good many of these so-called public servants spend more time enriching themselves rather then doing the business of the people. They also spend an inordinate amount of time preparing for the next election (in Congress they generally start immediately after winning the last election). Furthermore, these people do not live like their constituents, however enjoy perks that they have garnered for themselves over the years including things such as health care second to none (of which most will not exercise the public option should that pass and become law). They also enjoy other perks such as junkets to exotic places for bogus reasons (witness Helsinki, etc.). They also spend most of their time in Washington living the life of the privileged and not back home truly representing the people. Furthermore, in the climate today you can see the influence of the party leadership and how beholding many of these intelligent, "independent minded" representatives are (my congressman voted 98% of the time as the house speaker dictated). Now I ask you, does he represent me or his party's own vested interests? I think the answer is self evident.

Unfortunately for us and our children, we do not have many leaders such as Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus (the citizen soldier/statesman of the Roman republic) serving today. He served in a time of great need by his country and when the emergency subsided, he immediately went back to his true profession and resumed his life on his small farm. We have allowed the new privileged class to design their own object of their desire. They have created a great profession with which to settle in and reap the benefits. They have stacked the deck against any meaningful reform and they have designed the most onerous laws that have added greatly to our national debt and at the same time diminished our freedoms correspondingly. Should this widening gulf between elected officials and their constituents continue much further, we will probably be witnesses to the total transformation to the brave new world written about by Aldous Huxley. What we have now is a profession that generally attracts those who want the power, prestige and wealth that being a federal elected official brings. They, for the most part are not the "Citizen Politician" that the forefathers envisioned.

Add the fact that these officials spend most of their time running for office therefore, the motivation might not mean doing the right thing for the right reasons but rather doing things right in order to get re-elected. I think that the crude term is they resort to "buying votes" in order to achieve that end. This is how did we got the "great Society" and the rest of those social giveaways designed ostensibly to reduce poverty when in reality, they did nothing but entrap millions of people forcing them to stay on the public dole. After all of these trillions of dollars were we even able to reduce poverty by 1%? I don't believe we did, but we did create a massive constituency that only wants more of the public's wealth. Why is it that over 1/2 of the population pays no federal income taxes? These are not rhetorical questions or observations.

The strongest argument in favor of term limits is that if enacted, that particularly odious aspect surrounding the body politic could be for the most part removed from the equation. I am not interested in "professional" politicians, because they are just that. Rule by these Washington apparatchiks has not served the country well. However, you can see that in fact they serve the party and/or themselves quite well. There is a saying that one of the major parties looks at holding elected office as the time to get wealthy while in office. The other party looks at it as building the relationships so that they can get wealthy after the leave office. One approach is slightly less odious then the other wouldn't you agree?

On balance and even though imperfect, I believe that some form of term limits might be needed in order to shake the tree enough so that we get a fresh crop of citizens in that have fresh ideas in order to solve the problems created by the current crop of "professionals". I am afraid that if Washington becomes even more powerful and distant from us, we will have lost something that will never be regained.

For What Its Worth!



From snowhawk Posted 2/15/2010 1:32:41 PM

During the war of words back in 84,85,86,when We the American People, there wern't many of us back then, were fighting the congressional decision to grant amnesty. The corporate captains of industry knew they could order there lackeys in congress with the help of there boy Ronney to get this done. I'll not forget the darling of the Republican party standing at the lectern before the American people stating " This amnesty is a one time thing. Were locking the gates for good". So thoughs of you whom don't believe in term limits are either to sit in your Repub ways or your life and job were totally unaffected by the wave after wave after wave of unconvicted felons intering the U.S. illegally becouse of this decision. It worked out wonderfully for corperate heads they've quadruped there income while the American worker has watched there pay stagnate for twenty years.


From richiep Posted 2/15/2010 7:03:41 AM

I'll second that motion


From 02blackjack Posted 2/14/2010 1:36:07 PM

I'm no longer against term limits. I'm not sure it matters. But I am absolutely sure that it does matter that every American voter be intensely involved in politics and policy making in our nation.


From 02blackjack Posted 2/14/2010 1:33:18 PM

Being called the 'Silent Majority' is definitely NO compliment. Several factors have gone into getting us into the present mess. But on the top of the list has got to be the uncaring, pathetic apathy of the 'Silent Majority' for however many decades now. Hope it's not too late to clean up the mess. It will only be done if the previously silent majority turns the television off and gets to work. Most of what happens (problems created) in a participatory representative democracy can be traced back to an univolved electorate. We are supposed to be the most important, fourth branch of government. If we don't participate-it simply won't work properly.


From richiep Posted 2/13/2010 7:04:16 PM

yes to term limits


From KeysCaptain Posted 2/13/2010 1:10:37 PM

This entire process of no term limits creates exactly what is killing this country now. A ruling "elite class" of professional politicians who have set themselves above the law and the "common man". The way they do business in Washington we the people would go to jail if we operated our business like that.
This will never change until we start putting these "elite's" who are corrupt and breaking the law in JAIL(real jail not fed country club)
Politics with no term limits is an open ended opportunity that breeds corruption, cronyism and IT'S NOT WORKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Both Dems and Repub are guilty of it.
It's time to "re-boot" as Beck would say.



From richiep Posted 2/11/2010 8:38:55 AM

Yea !!!! what Pained just said.
But seriously...... What I love is the fact that we can debate this issue openly, my fear is if our country continues moveing in the direction our elected officials are stearing it these debates may have to take place behind closed doors



From Pained Posted 2/10/2010 9:11:17 PM

It is ludicrous to propose that the only citizen within the community that is worthy is this solitary figure. Every worthy citizen has the opportunity to be re-elected (once) and then seek higher office or lower office if the electorate deems him so worthy. And others are surely welcome to seek his counsel on matters if need be. But the negative impact of no term limits is clear, irrefutable, and overwhelmingly prevalent.


From TheStatesman Posted 2/10/2010 9:08:49 PM

There are many illogical statements made in this argument, the most glaring:

"Madison knew that freedom rests with the electorate, not by way of limiting our choices, but by each voter fulfilling his or her constitutional responsibilities."

Madison would not have expected the "hers" to vote since they could not vote.



From TheStatesman Posted 2/10/2010 9:06:41 PM

There are many illogical statements made in this argument, the most glaring:

"Madison knew that freedom rests with the electorate, not by way of limiting our choices, but by each voter fulfilling his or her constitutional responsibilities."

Madison would not have expected the "hers" to vote since they could not vote.



From richiep Posted 2/10/2010 9:05:18 PM

Nord your theory works as long as the electorate stays delegent. However, as soon as things get rosey again we will all go back to our little lives and forget about how corrupt our polititians have been.500 years ago the romans started killing their polititians because they couldnt stand their corruption any longer. Men are power hungry and greedy and given enough time they will put their hand in the cookie jar. History proves it, and sadly, so have our elected officials, from both sides of the aisle.


From Nord357 Posted 2/10/2010 8:21:33 PM

The gentlemen seem to miss the point that special intrests and money can have absolutley no effect without the consent (read passive uneducated complicity) of the electorate.
For clarity I state, if the electorate be educated and active no corrupt politician could finish his first term let alone run several consecutive terms.
The problem is not self serving politicians, its us.



From qzy63b Posted 2/10/2010 6:48:46 PM

I strongly disagree. Given a choice of doing what is best for the country or what is best for themselves, they shamelessly serve themselves. Evidence is in the pay raises they approve for themselves, privileged healthcare programs, excluding themselves from the rule of law that applies to most countrymen, and my favorite is the ridiculous gerrymandering they do to guarantee reelection. Term limits is 'Gong Show' exit that will get rid of the corrupted bums when all else fails. In NC House District 41, we have such an incumbent, David Price. There is no getting rid of him without term limits. For every Ronald Reagan, there are 20 Robert Byrds.


From richiep Posted 2/10/2010 5:38:16 PM

George Washington himself, you remember him don't you? He was for term limits, He understood the hunger for power and the greed of men.
I don't want you to take my word for it, look it up. While your looking that up, check out some the history of the world, because, "those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it"



From rsingh001@cfl.rr.com Posted 2/10/2010 11:32:02 AM

Excellent artice.Term limits IS NOT a solution for the same reason that we can't put limits on the human spirit. Imagine if we had REAGAN for a third term!!
Finding and supporting honest, bright and repectable candidates from all walks of life who will enforce our CONSTITUTION ought to be the focus of the TP; any other focus would have wasted all this energy and momentum.



From richie27932 Posted 2/9/2010 10:30:16 PM

Well said. I feel the very same way when it is said "VOTE THEM ALL OUT". If that's to be our MO, voting record, nor job done has no place. Infact no need to record voting records if infact they have no merit. As for many of the comments made here, it could sound as if they never read the blog, I found the same with P.O.P. To say we need to vote for one bad candidate or another bad candidate ? seems to miss the point..
Rich Miller



From embalsmeier Posted 2/9/2010 10:28:53 PM

There seems to be a concensus for term limits. Is there a concensus among all of the TPP and if so what next? It seems this ought to be one of the fundamentals of the movement.


From richiep Posted 2/9/2010 1:39:14 PM

Unfortunatly Cody as jdgito pointed out, special intrest groups get involved and donate money to get certain reps elected and then re-elected so that rep is now a slave to the group who helped get him/her elected in the first place. Term limits would eliminate this from happening as well as other shadey back door deals which have just about crippled this nation and it's people. Furthermore, only dictators sit in power for 40 years, unless their over thrown by another regime. Term limits make sense.


From CodyTEAParty Posted 2/9/2010 1:21:17 PM

If we disallow "Partyline Voting" and remove the (D), (R), (L) notation we would better serve the voting populace and gently force them to learn about each candidate or withold their vote. It may be time to impose a voting test (be a land owner, know the identity of the candidates and/or amendments being voted upon, or the current office holders, something to prevent the 'buy a vote' with a carton of cigarettes.)


From CodyTEAParty Posted 2/9/2010 1:14:57 PM

I concur. If 'the people' choose to re-elect a representative, it is their will not some 'term limit.' When Sen Kennedy died, then the state elected the person they wanted to replace him. And we a people are fed up with a representative, then the people will elect the change they want. Let's just keep elements like ACORN out of the election process as they have proven their illegal tampering and actions.


From jdgito253 Posted 2/9/2010 7:59:47 AM

If our political environment still operated with We the People at the helm, then perhaps the argument for open terms would stand without challenge. Unfortunately our politicians have gerrymandered the system to the point that We the People do not have the leverage to easily replace a corrupt incumbent. Our legislative districts, even down to the Voting precinct level in many cases, are chopped up and reformed to create "winnable" blocks of voters and special interest groups power cash streams to incumbents to ensure re-election of "favorable" candidates. The only way We the People are going to regain our leverage and return Government to control of the electorate, is to impose term limits, campaign finance reform and update the voter registration rolls. Does anyone else find it sad that we can have animals, cartoon characters, deceased persons and even Minors who are ACTIVE voters on our rolls?


From richiep Posted 2/9/2010 7:29:10 AM

That's a nice story, however, history has proven to us that when someone sits on a public seat too long they forget about doing the peoples business. Our founding fathers knew men are power hungry, thats why Madison wrote what he did. I have a story too....... only mines alittle shorter, it's called the TED KENNEDY STORY. Term limits will work and should be impossed.


From 02blackjack Posted 2/8/2010 7:58:25 PM

We can call for and demand all kinds of things but until congress is completely changed out with people with a totally different mindset, we all know that nothing will change.


From flanders23j Posted 2/8/2010 7:29:15 PM

That's an interesting theoretical story. Here though, is the real point. No matter how good or bad an elected rep is, he/she is just one rep and your premise disallows the fact that there is a body of elected reps that work together for a continual positive movement forward of governance. If term limits are a problem, how about alternating terms ie: one term in, one out, one in, one out.
P.S. monarchies and dynasties are ok for Europe, but no a democracy. Enough said...



From boblacolla Posted 2/8/2010 9:01:14 AM

When we want to "throw the bums out," perhaps we should consider whether it is the environment created by past multi-term congressional office holders that holds the key to more efficient government. As of today, office holders:
1. Acquire retirement benefits after just five years in office
2. receive automatic pay increases unless they specifically vote against the increase
3. Have one of the best health care packages in the nation
4. have access to huge amounts of special interest influence through “campaign” donations (cash)

One has to wonder what would happen if congressional pay, perks, benefits and campaign funding were subject to public referendum. Lawmakers would likely have to “sell” the concept of pay and benefit increases in a way that would require greater transparency in the work that they do.

Rather than attack or support candidates to an office in a rigged system, Tea-Party members can acquire greater control of the government by calling for congressional pay packages to be subject to voter approval.



From RWMonty Posted 2/8/2010 7:59:02 AM

The office of Representative requires certain skills. It is a trade. As with any trade there are those who are barely competent and those who are super stars. I want my representative to be a highly skilled professional, not a hacker. I would also like for him to work for me. So long as we are represented by people who work for unknown third party persons, we will we whip lashed back and forth. (See my blogs)


From embalsmeier Posted 2/7/2010 10:18:25 PM

Moondog419 - Thanks for the well written post on term limits.

Let me propose a modification to the rigorous limit of terms by suggesting to those that feel strongly about being able to vote for someone that they really think is worth keeping in office. Limit the incumbent to a certain number of years of being able to have their name on the ballot and after that time then they can only run as a write in candidate. If they are really that good then they should be able to easily win a write in campaign. We need to get past the idea that an elected offical is really indispensable.

In the 2000 election the re-election rate was over 98%. To continue to use the argument that educating the electorate is the way to get the career politicians out does not have merit. Congressional stagnation has been evident and noted by the pundits since at least the 1970's when I started voting. It is my opinion that it is not the lack of education of the electorate but that either the electorate does not believe that "their" congressman or senator is the problem; or that they are too tied into the two party system to be capable of seeing that congressional careerism is the fundemnetal issue with the problems that we face in America today.

Another problem contributing to America's situation is thatmuch of the electorate is addictied to the two party system and the ploiticians are addicted to power and your money. Until this addiction is broken the situation will never change and only get worse.

Imagine the balance a strong third party could bring to the table coupled with term limits.



From soldtonorm Posted 2/7/2010 9:14:17 PM

Term limits are a hedge against corrupt or "bought" elections on the state level. The long term influence of a Kennedy extended far beyond what any honest representative should have been able to achieve. After a long time exposed to the Washington "machine", representatives become politicians...all sales and no delivery.


From cliff2008 Posted 2/7/2010 6:45:08 PM

Term limits is an appealing idea to me, but, the limits don't have to be unreasonably short. I think 3 terms in the Senate and 8 terms in the House gives the country the opportunity to benefit from any exceptional politician that may arise while curtailing the Pelosies, Franks& Byrds of the world. Add to those limits 8 year restrictions from the time the Congressman leaves office before he can be employed as a lobbyist or serve in the executive branch. This unlimited & unrestricted system we currently have obviously isn't the best way.


From walshwoman Posted 2/7/2010 6:20:16 PM

Ronald Reagan never held a seat in the House of Representatives. He was elected Governor of California in 1966 unseating a democrat, Pat Brown, winning 57.65% of the vote. Reagan was governor of California until 1976. He became President of the United States in 1980. So who are you talking about? Or are you creating a fictitious story to support your point? Do your homework before writing.


From walshwoman Posted 2/7/2010 3:48:12 PM

Ronald Reagan never held a seat in the House of Representatives. He was elected Governor of California in 1966 unseating a democrat, Pat Brown, winning 57.65% of the vote. Reagan was governor of California until 1976. He became President of the United States in 1980. So who are you talking about? Or are you creating a fictitious story to support your point? Do your homework before writing.


From maruchi Posted 2/7/2010 2:57:02 PM

moondog419

I concur



From moondog419 Posted 2/7/2010 1:23:50 PM

Nord 357

Washington served 2 terms. Adams 1 term as president 2 terms as Vice president. Jefferson 2 Terms 1 term as vice president.

Your point?



From moondog419 Posted 2/7/2010 1:12:49 PM

All of you who claim freedoms are lost in term limits are clearly naive. You claim that the ability to vote for someone else gives us term limits, but if your voting between the devil you know and the devil you don't who's going to vote in the devil you don't? Further Our government was not founded on the idea of career politicians, but in the idea you went to Washington to serve your country, sacrificing your private industry wage for a lesser government stipend and when it was time, you stepped aside to let new ideas flow and returned home.
Your claims we would loose people such, as Reagan or Ron Paul is absurd. Term limits do not stop them from seeking other offices just not the same office after 8 years. Besides that's what the primary is for! You decide there who is best qualified to represent your party, so if you want the most choice you are given a plethora of new candidates because who wants to go up against a multimillionaire incumbent when you know there is a snow balls chance in hell you'll win! So don't try to claim we would loose our freedom of choice, it would still be there in the primary only not forever in the general election.
The problem with your argument about voter education is also flawed. Why? Because voters don't care to be informed, studies prove they make most decisions based on emotions. There has been a huge effort to educate voters and yet, we got Obama!
Besides all of your weak arguments as to why it would be "so awful" and how we would "loose our freedom of choice", you can simply look at all the harm having no term limits has done to our country. We got the Federal Reserve, Corruption in bid contracts, Lobbyist buying votes, seats for sale to the highest bidder, voter fraud, stolen elections, redrawing Congressional districts, the politicizing of the census, the global warming scam, the attempted health care take over, huge pork barrel spending and most of all a huge group of people who believe they are entitled to use and abuse the tax payers dollars for personal and pet project use because they are somehow better than the rest of us. I could point out names of those who abused their offices but I'll just bring up two from recent memory. Nancy Pelosi's abuse of Air force planes and food and alcohol, and Massachusetts changing the law to ensure a democrat gets installed in office, when the governor is set to appoint a replacement.

Fear of change is normal but keeping the status quo is insane. If you want real change of the government to an image closed to the founding fathers vision, you would want nothing less than term limits.

When the government fears you, you have freedom. When you fear the Government you have Tyranny.



From cliff2008 Posted 2/7/2010 12:53:31 PM

Term limits is an appealing idea to me, but, the limits don't have to be unreasonably short. I think 3 terms in the Senate and 8 terms in the House gives the country the opportunity to benefit from any exceptional politician that may arise while curtailing the Pelosies, Franks& Byrds of the world. Add to those limits 8 year restrictions from the time the Congressman leaves office before he can be employed as a lobbyist or serve in the executive branch. This unlimited & unrestricted system we currently have obviously isn't the best way.


From maruchi Posted 2/7/2010 8:37:38 AM

Nord357

I apologize for the personal attack. I see your point and I respect your opinion. But this political machine called Washington DC runs solely on the fact that most people don't educate themselves on the politicians that are running and just vote for the status quo. How do you educate 55% of the country that close their eyes and just vote party lines without really seeing the big picture?



From Nord357 Posted 2/6/2010 10:27:09 PM

Please see my respone to maruchi's post in a line by line format in parentheses

srweston21 what politician or political party is paying you to write this article?
(Personal attacks have no place in reasoned debate. Disagreement is no justification for questioning authenticity)

I believe in term limits.
(Myself and many other do not.)

Career politicians just follow what's polling popular to stay in power.
(No one can stay in power in a free republic, IF, the electorate is educated, active and unwilling to have them.)

When you got money, lobbists and friends in high places. You can stay in power for a long time.
(See point above)

Sure it's nice to think with the power of people we can change any politicians direction but that's not always true. When you got power you'll do anything to keep it. Including changing party lines to get re-elected AKA Arlen Specter...what's up with that anyway!?
(See point above)

We could have some great people in the government but most people vote for the familiar rather than the unknown.
(Educate your "most people" Teach them that this is a bad idea.Additionally if a constitutionally qualified candidate is "unknown", and you know about him, whos responsibility is that?)

Many times I've gone to the polling place and have been discouraged and the choices I have would be one of two parties or just one party because no one would run against an incumbent.
(Get a coalition of people together a support someone who will represent your ideas and get them on the ballot, conduct a write in campaign. Provide a meaningful alternative.)

So I'm tired of seeing the same old names on the ticket.( See point above)

I'm sorry but if you can't do what you need to in eight years your not going to do it in 10, 15 even 20.(This is subjective opinion)

And our founding fathers being the brilliant insightful men that they were knew that that's why they made our Constitution a "living document".( The constitution is not a living document. It is the supreme law of the union and was made very difficult to change by those wise men.

"One thing our founding fathers could not foresee... was a nation governed by professional politicians who have a vested interest in getting reelected. They probably envisioned a fellow serving a couple of hitches and then looking forward to getting back to the farm." -- Ronald Reagan
( With all respect due to the greatest prsident in my lifetime. Howmany terms did Mr Washington serve?)



From Nord357 Posted 2/6/2010 10:06:21 PM

Please see my respone to maruchi's post in a line by line format in parentheses

srweston21 what politician or political party is paying you to write this article?
(Personal attacks have no place in reasoned debate. Disagreement is no justification for questioning authenticity)

I believe in term limits.
(Myself and many other do not.)

Career politicians just follow what's polling popular to stay in power.
(No one can stay in power in a free republic, IF, the electorate is educated, active and unwilling to have them.)

When you got money, lobbists and friends in high places. You can stay in power for a long time.
(See point above)

Sure it's nice to think with the power of people we can change any politicians direction but that's not always true. When you got power you'll do anything to keep it. Including changing party lines to get re-elected AKA Arlen Specter...what's up with that anyway!?
(See point above)

We could have some great people in the government but most people vote for the familiar rather than the unknown.
(Educate your "most people" Teach them that this is a bad idea.Additionally if a constitutionally qualified candidate is "unknown", and you know about him, whos responsibility is that?)

Many times I've gone to the polling place and have been discouraged and the choices I have would be one of two parties or just one party because no one would run against an incumbent.
(Get a coalition of people together a support someone who will represent your ideas and get them on the ballot, conduct a write in campaign. Provide a meaningful alternative.)

So I'm tired of seeing the same old names on the ticket.( See point above)

I'm sorry but if you can't do what you need to in eight years your not going to do it in 10, 15 even 20.(This is subjective opinion)

And our founding fathers being the brilliant insightful men that they were knew that that's why they made our Constitution a "living document".( The constitution is not a living document. It is the supreme law of the union and was made very difficult to change by those wise men.

"One thing our founding fathers could not foresee... was a nation governed by professional politicians who have a vested interest in getting reelected. They probably envisioned a fellow serving a couple of hitches and then looking forward to getting back to the farm." -- Ronald Reagan
( With all respect due to the greatest prsident in my lifetime. Howmany terms did Mr Washington serve?)



From Nord357 Posted 2/6/2010 6:27:32 PM

Please see my respone to maruchi's post in a line by line format in parentheses

srweston21 what politician or political party is paying you to write this article?
(Personal attacks have no place in reasoned debate. Disagreement is no justification for questioning authenticity)

I believe in term limits.
(Myself and many other do not.)

Career politicians just follow what's polling popular to stay in power.
(No one can stay in power in a free republic, IF, the electorate is educated, active and unwilling to have them.)

When you got money, lobbists and friends in high places. You can stay in power for a long time.
(See point above)

Sure it's nice to think with the power of people we can change any politicians direction but that's not always true. When you got power you'll do anything to keep it. Including changing party lines to get re-elected AKA Arlen Specter...what's up with that anyway!?
(See point above)

We could have some great people in the government but most people vote for the familiar rather than the unknown.
(Educate your "most people" Teach them that this is a bad idea.Additionally if a constitutionally qualified candidate is "unknown", and you know about him, whos responsibility is that?)

Many times I've gone to the polling place and have been discouraged and the choices I have would be one of two parties or just one party because no one would run against an incumbent.
(Get a coalition of people together a support someone who will represent your ideas and get them on the ballot, conduct a write in campaign. Provide a meaningful alternative.)

So I'm tired of seeing the same old names on the ticket.( See point above)

I'm sorry but if you can't do what you need to in eight years your not going to do it in 10, 15 even 20.(This is subjective opinion)

And our founding fathers being the brilliant insightful men that they were knew that that's why they made our Constitution a "living document".( The constitution is not a living document. It is the supreme law of the union and was made very difficult to change by those wise men.

"One thing our founding fathers could not foresee... was a nation governed by professional politicians who have a vested interest in getting reelected. They probably envisioned a fellow serving a couple of hitches and then looking forward to getting back to the farm." -- Ronald Reagan
( With all respect due to the greatest prsident in my lifetime. Howmany terms did Mr Washington serve?)



From dande1128 Posted 2/6/2010 6:20:39 PM

Term limits is not the answer so long as we are under the tyranny of the two party system. However, I am NOT ADVOCATING A THIRD PARTY! Refer to my blog post "Dysfunction of Our Government" www.teapartypatriots.org/BlogPostView.aspx?id=7a46d99e-3255-4c08-ac6d-5c26466f5f3b


From Nord357 Posted 2/6/2010 5:43:27 PM

Please see my respone to maruchi's post in a line by line format in parentheses

srweston21 what politician or political party is paying you to write this article?
(Personal attacks have no place in reasoned debate. Disagreement is no justification for questioning authenticity)

I believe in term limits.
(Myself and many other do not.)

Career politicians just follow what's polling popular to stay in power.
(No one can stay in power in a free republic, IF, the electorate is educated, active and unwilling to have them.)

When you got money, lobbists and friends in high places. You can stay in power for a long time.
(See point above)

Sure it's nice to think with the power of people we can change any politicians direction but that's not always true. When you got power you'll do anything to keep it. Including changing party lines to get re-elected AKA Arlen Specter...what's up with that anyway!?
(See point above)

We could have some great people in the government but most people vote for the familiar rather than the unknown.
(Educate your "most people" Teach them that this is a bad idea.Additionally if a constitutionally qualified candidate is "unknown", and you know about him, whos responsibility is that?)

Many times I've gone to the polling place and have been discouraged and the choices I have would be one of two parties or just one party because no one would run against an incumbent.
(Get a coalition of people together a support someone who will represent your ideas and get them on the ballot, conduct a write in campaign. Provide a meaningful alternative.)

So I'm tired of seeing the same old names on the ticket.( See point above)

I'm sorry but if you can't do what you need to in eight years your not going to do it in 10, 15 even 20.(This is subjective opinion)

And our founding fathers being the brilliant insightful men that they were knew that that's why they made our Constitution a "living document".( The constitution is not a living document. It is the supreme law of the union and was made very difficult to change by those wise men.

"One thing our founding fathers could not foresee... was a nation governed by professional politicians who have a vested interest in getting reelected. They probably envisioned a fellow serving a couple of hitches and then looking forward to getting back to the farm." -- Ronald Reagan
( With all respect due to the greatest prsident in my lifetime. Howmany terms did Mr Washington serve?)



From Nord357 Posted 2/6/2010 5:04:49 PM

New idea, educate the electorate!

Agreeing that we are going to fire someone every 4 or 2 or 6 years is going to produce good policy how?
The reason that we have crooks in government is that WE THE PEOPLE ELECT THEM. We the people elect them because 53% of the American population believed that a socialist agenda would benifit them and thier families. The blame here rests squarely on WE THE PEOPLE.
not congress
Educate ourselves,educate our neighbors educate our children.
Only when America is again comprised of an educated and reasoned electorate will we not have crooks in government.

There is no silver bullet here folks only a long hard and tiring pull.

It took us over 150 years of getting progressivly lazier and less educated to permit this state of affairs.
We wont get it back overnight.

I happen to know for a fact that there are several honest and honorable servants in congress. Oh by the way they need education as well.
Anyone want to sponser an Institute on the Constitution class for your representative?



From bulldog76 Posted 2/6/2010 2:51:40 PM

We are a democratic republic that values individual rights. Term limits are both fascist and lazy. You want to take away my right to vote for someone I may think is the best person for the job because you feel he has been doing it too long and not enough people who don't like him can get together to have him removed. If you don't like an incumbent get off you duff and get his butt out of office. In a presidential election where we are at war, on the verge of a depression, and have the possibility to elect the first black president, the voting turn out was between 51% to 60% (depending on source). In non-presidential election years there are congressman elected with less than a 20% voter turn out.

The lack of term limits are not to blame, we are. If you feel strongly that one of our leaders is not serving the public good and you can't get enough people to agree that there is someone better, who is willing to take the job, then you are either not trying harder enough or you are wrong.

Has anyone ever considered the idea that term limits would ensure an increase in corruption? People who are always looking for reelection can only do so much or else they will be fired. People, who know that no matter what they’re out of there, are more likely to make the shady deal because they have less to lose.

Last point: Government lesson.

Supreme Court lifetime appointments are to ensure that they are beholding to no party and can therefore make apolitical decisions.

Presidential term limits are to repair an imbalance in power that was never intended by the authors of the constitution. The legislature was intended to be the most powerful branch of our government. This was to ward off the birth of the "American King" and aid in the connection of citizenry to its leadership as legislators are members of our own communities.



From maruchi Posted 2/6/2010 1:06:50 PM

srweston21 what politician or political party is paying you to write this article?

I believe in term limits. Career politicians just follow what's polling popular to stay in power. When you got money, lobbists and friends in high places. You can stay in power for a long time. Sure it's nice to think with the power of people we can change any politicians direction but that's not always true. When you got power you'll do anything to keep it. Including changing party lines to get re-elected AKA Arlen Specter...what's up with that anyway!?

We could have some great people in the government but most people vote for the familiar rather than the unknown. Many times I've gone to the polling place and have been discouraged and the choices I have would be one of two parties or just one party because no one would run against an incumbent.

So I'm tired of seeing the same old names on the ticket. I'm sorry but if you can't do what you need to in eight years your not going to do it in 10, 15 even 20. And our founding fathers being the brilliant insightful men that they were knew that that's why they made our Constitution a "living document".

"One thing our founding fathers could not foresee... was a nation governed by professional politicians who have a vested interest in getting reelected. They probably envisioned a fellow serving a couple of hitches and then looking forward to getting back to the farm." -- Ronald Reagan



From peterskinnebrewmdfaap Posted 2/6/2010 12:25:45 PM

The power of the incumbency has outstripped any of our Founders' worst nightmares. Your hypothesis is meaningless; when was the last time a Congressperson was elected Prtesident? Who has said two terms would be the best House limit? I prefer 5 terms for representatives, 2 terms for Senators, and 25 years for SCOTUS judges. Why was it necessary to limit the Presidency to two terms? TERM LIMITS SHOULD BE ON OF THE TOP 3 ITEMS IN THE NEW 'CONTRACT FROM AMERICA'. ALONG WITH THE FAIRTAX (AND REPEAL OF AMENDMENT #16) AND A BALANCED/NATIONAL DEBT-REDUCING FEDERAL BUDGET. Very little else matters if we are to remain the 'last, best hope of mankind'. I almost hate to use the 'hope' word......................


From vader65 Posted 2/6/2010 10:57:44 AM

I disagree completely! All one has to do is watch C-Span, the pompous asses who talk to hear themselves talk. For the most part they talk down to anyone who doesn't agree with them. The one common thread among all of them regardless of party, they cannot answer any question with a direct answer. It turns into a lengthy tirade which says nothing. Term limits are the answer. Just look at the fiasco with Arlen Specter in PA. eighty years old and he changed parties because it became apparent that his own party would not re=elect him in November. I think the tea party is being hijacked by the mainstream republican party. I keep looking for someone who is for America, not the radical right, nor the radical left! It is like the news programs, want the left opinion, CNN,ABC,NBC. Want the right view, FOX. The articulate person who wrote this article is a card carrying republican, and a politician.


From Nord357 Posted 2/6/2010 10:24:31 AM

New idea, educate the electorate!

Agreeing that we are going to fire someone every 4 or 2 or 6 years is going to produce good policy how?
The reason that we have crooks in government is that WE THE PEOPLE ELECT THEM. We the people elect them because 53% of the American population believed that a socialist agenda would benifit them and thier families. The blame here rests squarely on WE THE PEOPLE.
not congress
Educate ourselves,educate our neighbors educate our children.
Only when America is again comprised of an educated and reasoned electorate will we not have crooks in government.

There is no silver bullet here folks only a long hard and tiring pull.

It took us over 150 years of getting progressivly lazier and less educated to permit this state of affairs.
We wont get it back overnight.

I happen to know for a fact that there are several honest and honorable servants in congress. Oh by the way they need education as well.
Anyone want to sponser an Institute on the Constitution class for your representative?



From Nord357 Posted 2/6/2010 10:19:24 AM

New idea, educate the electorate!

Agreeing that we are going to fire someone every 4 or 2 or 6 years is going to produce good policy how?
The reason that we have crooks in government is that WE THE PEOPLE ELECT THEM. We the people elect them because 53% of the American population believed that a socialist agenda would benifit them and thier families. The blame here rests squarely on WE THE PEOPLE.
not congress
Educate ourselves,educate our neighbors educate our children.
Only when America is again comprised of an educated and reasoned electorate will we not have crooks in government.

There is no silver bullet here folks only a long hard and tiring pull.

It took us over 150 years of getting progressivly lazier and less educated to permit this state of affairs.
We wont get it back overnight.

I happen to know for a fact that there are several honest and honorable servants in congress. Oh by the way they need education as well.
Anyone want to sponser an Institute on the Constitution class for your representative?



From Nord357 Posted 2/6/2010 8:54:23 AM

New idea, educate the electorate!

Agreeing that we are going to fire someone every 4 or 2 or 6 years is going to produce good policy how?
The reason that we have crooks in government is that WE THE PEOPLE ELECT THEM. We the people elect them because 53% of the American population believed that a socialist agenda would benifit them and thier families. The blame here rests squarely on WE THE PEOPLE.
not congress
Educate ourselves,educate our neighbors educate our children.
Only when America is again comprised of an educated and reasoned electorate will we not have crooks in government.

There is no silver bullet here folks only a long hard and tiring pull.

It took us over 150 years of getting progressivly lazier and less educated to permit this state of affairs.
We wont get it back overnight.

I happen to know for a fact that there are several honest and honorable servants in congress. Oh by the way they need education as well.
Anyone want to sponser an Institute on the Constitution class for your representative?



From JRhaesa Posted 2/6/2010 8:32:38 AM

Thank you for this post. I am forever amazed by citizens who refuse to exercise their right and live up to their responsibility. It is we the people who vote the good representatives in and we have a responsibility to throw the bad ones out. Abdicating individual responsibility in the form of term limits is, as you point out, a trap to ensure the end of our right to elect our representatives.


From embalsmeier Posted 2/6/2010 12:39:40 AM

By the way... There are no honorable and honest servants in congress!


From embalsmeier Posted 2/6/2010 12:38:06 AM

I'll ask the same question again. How has the system been working for us?

Doing the same thing over and over and hoping for different results is insanity. Reelection rates for incumbents at 96% must mean that Washington is full of honest and honorable servants. I don't think so. The Founding Fathers intended for regular turnover.

The crooks in Congress figured out how to maintain power and that was to implement term limits on the Executive Branch without imposing it on themselves. I wonder why...

It makes no more sense to limit the executive branch without limiting congress. Real change cannot come by doing the same old thing and the argument that election cycles are the real term limits has not worked since the founding. How about a new idea.



From Nord357 Posted 2/5/2010 9:44:06 PM

People,
Please understand, we already have term limits. They are called election cycles!!

No one is forced to vote for the candidate that spends the most money. Elections in a free republic are decided by an informed electorate, not a media saturated electorate.

It seems to me that when we demand "term limits" we are saying "I dont want to go to the bother of ensuring that I am informed. I dont want to be bothered with intentionally holding my representatives accountable. Please lets just go on autopilot so I can get on with my life.

This is not the path to freedom folks freedom requires labor and vigilance.

The phrase "good help is hard to find" is especially true in the public service sector. When you find good help you keep it. If, your intent is to prosper.

Dissmissing honest and honorable servants for the sake of an autopilot scheme is insanity.



From Nord357 Posted 2/5/2010 7:53:07 PM

People,
Please understand, we already have term limits. They are called election cycles!!

No one is forced to vote for the candidate that spends the most money. Elections in a free republic are decided by an informed electorate, not a media saturated electorate.

It seems to me that when we demand "term limits" we are saying "I dont want to go to the bother of ensuring that I am informed. I dont want to be bothered with intentionally holding my representatives accountable. Please lets just go on autopilot so I can get on with my life.

This is not the path to freedom folks freedom requires labor and vigilance.

The phrase "good help is hard to find" is especially true in the public service sector. When you find good help you keep it. If, your intent is to prosper.

Dissmissing honest and honorable servants for the sake of an autopilot scheme is insanity.



From embalsmeier Posted 2/5/2010 2:42:08 PM

I wish I could answer the question of how long. If the TPP were to focus on a few important issues such as term limits instead of expending energy on deciding which group (progressives, populists, democrats, or republicans) is the eveil cause of our country's problems I think it could be pushed through in a few years. If you will recal the republicans got a lot of us really excited with the "Contract with America" and then swept into office knowing that they were not going to pass one of the more important items in the "Contract" which was Term Limits. If the TPP took on th